IRC Meetups/2005/August/August10RawLog

Zhuozuran讨论 | 贡献2009年3月14日 (六) 09:23的版本 (1个修订)
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[17:01] photomatt okay let's get started br /[17:01] skippy meetup br /[17:02] photomatt the agenda is pretty sparse, so we can keep it short br /[17:02] photomatt start with podz? br /[17:02] Podz k br /[17:02] * Joins: mikelittle br /[17:02] Podz I've been working on something for the past week, and the end result is that br /[17:02] Podz I've taken all the Codex info - or a lot of it - and turned it into PDF files. br /[17:03] masquerade Ohh, just what I was thinking would be useful last weekend br /[17:03] Podz I've set a page up with an explanation here: br /[17:03] Podz and the downloads are here: br /[17:03] skippy fantastic! br /[17:04] Podz it needs work as an overall project, but it also needed a bumpstart to get things into docs..I'm hoping this is it br /[17:04] * Joins: shep|lappy br /[17:05] ringmaster Each Codex page is its own PDF? br /[17:05] Podz pretty much, yes br /[17:05] skippy Podz: are you making these manually? br /[17:05] Podz and as each page updates, so does the pdf br /[17:06] masquerade perhaps with a bit of work from everyone we could organize it, make a table of contents and all, and make a book-style PDF br /[17:06] Podz skippy:: open Office is helping :) It's not as hard as it seems br /[17:06] Podz Open Office beta is superb for this. br /[17:06] skippy Podz: okay; it could be automated even more with some command-line magic (curl / wget / lynx piping into gs perhaps) br /[17:07] Podz skippy:: yes, but I had to remove all the TOC, edit links and do some formatting so it's not quite as easy, but then I don't know what tools there are. br /[17:07] skippy okay. This is an awesome start. br /[17:07] * Joins: mdawaffe br /[17:08] Podz When codex is back, I'll create a howto page br /[17:08] robl1 Podz: are you using the WikiReader tools or something of your own creation? br /[17:09] * Parts: shep|lappy br /[17:09] Podz With Open Office beta: Highlight all Codex text, copy over. It brings all the hyperlinks :) Then just edit a few fontsizes br /[17:10] Podz It's tedious, not tricky br /[17:10] * Quits: robla (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)�) br /[17:10] Podz robl1 - 'my creation' ? I can't code for my life :) br /[17:11] photomatt okay that sounds great br /[17:11] photomatt so coordinate with Podz if you're interested in that br /[17:11] photomatt Codex Condition - Lorelle br /[17:11] Podz A codex page wil explain all br /[17:12] relle photomatt? br /[17:12] photomatt the codex is broken, I'm trying to figure out why br /[17:12] relle what's the condition of codex? br /[17:12] photomatt logging in doesn't seem to work right br /[17:12] photomatt so until that's resolved it'll be read-only br /[17:13] photomatt obviously it's a priority, but some WP dev issues have come up that are taking precedence br /[17:13] photomatt which brings us to br /[17:13] photomatt Bug Hunting - skippy br /[17:13] skippy I'd like to encourage everyone to go through the trac tickets and help us squash bugs. Here's how: br /[17:14] skippy we're tagging tickets that have patches, and don't have patches. The tags are bg|has-patch and bg|needs-patch br /[17:14] photomatt which has been INCREDIBLY helpful when I go through trac br /[17:14] skippy if we can get folks to test the submitted patched; and submit missing patches; we can expidite the bug hunts. br /[17:14] photomatt skippy: that bears posting to the hackers list as well br /[17:14] skippy photomatt: okay. br /[17:15] skippy The more eyes we can put to the list of bugs, the faster we'll whittle it down. br /[17:15] mdawaffe photomatt: can we get WP branded butterfly nets for all the bug gardeners? br /[17:15] mikelittle Is this testing on the 1.5 branch? br /[17:15] photomatt we're going to do a immediate release in the next day or so br /[17:15] ringmaster Yeah, I didn't know that. I'll use that from now on. br /[17:15] photomatt yes on the 1.5 branch br /[17:15] photomatt skippy: what about setting up a 1.5.2 milestone and assigning bugs to that? br /[17:15] skippy you can also use bg|2nd-opinion to request a second opionion br /[17:15] * Joins: skeltoac|brb br /[17:16] skippy photomatt: I've been milestoning most things against 1.6; but 1.5.2 is just as good. br /[17:16] photomatt I think we should triage things against the 1.5 branch for this very-soon release br /[17:16] * Joins: element br /[17:16] photomatt hopefully things like hooks and simple bug fixes that don't touch a lot of code br /[17:16] * Joins: stevecooley br /[17:16] mdawaffe photomatt: is there more security stuff to be checked in? br /[17:16] skippy photomatt: did any of the responses to your list of fixes sound inappropriate for the immediate release? br /[17:17] * skeltoac|brb is now known as skeltoac br /[17:17] photomatt not that I recall br /[17:17] skippy if we can check off a handful of the annoying niggling bugs, all the better. br /[17:17] photomatt mdawaffe: there's a potential issue in post.php that we're investigating br /[17:17] mdawaffe k br /[17:17] skippy I'll try to collect the list of resposnes, and put a call for attention on the list later. br /[17:18] photomatt what we need to do in the 1.6 branch br /[17:18] photomatt is go through every single instance of isset() and see where that variable is coming from br /[17:18] * Quits: skeltoac|mobile (Remote closed the connection�) br /[17:18] masquerade Well, then let's post that to the hackers list, I'm sure it'll get done much quicker with more eyes on the code br /[17:18] skippy should we schedule a security review day? br /[17:19] skippy no bug fixes, just documenting each variable's provenance ? br /[17:19] ringmaster ...or otentially looking for what? br /[17:20] skippy ringmaster: following isset()s as photomatt said; also looking for/at all user-supplied data. br /[17:20] photomatt things we've missed historically are places where we don't expect user data br /[17:20] ringmaster Ok. br /[17:20] photomatt most of the actual submissions are pretty well reviewed br /[17:21] masquerade Ever considered running WP through that one time? br /[17:21] skippy that's all I had: I wanted to get some energy going for more trac reviews. br /[17:21] masquerade I haven't looked into it too far, saw it posted on Planet WP this morning br /[17:22] ringmaster There are 378 matches in 82 files for isset(.*?) in the latest SVN. br /[17:23] masquerade ringmaster, I'd imagine a good amount of that will be for Query Based Templates br /[17:23] ringmaster br /[17:23] photomatt I'm not saying it'll be fun, but it needs to be done br /[17:23] mdawaffe well there's 19 of us here, that's... 20 apiece :) br /[17:24] photomatt heh br /[17:24] photomatt so skippy, you good for creating a 1.5.2 milestone? br /[17:24] masquerade well, you have to count out those who don't know PHP though, which I know knocks at least a few out ;-) br /[17:24] skippy photomatt: do you want me to make the milestone? Sure. br /[17:24] photomatt please br /[17:25] photomatt the better we can organize the issues the faster we can get a release out without forgetting something br /[17:25] photomatt next up: WP-Medic - masquerade br /[17:25] masquerade Well, I just figured I'd throw out a little project set to release this friday br /[17:25] masquerade basically, an external script to debug WP, especially useful for helping on the forums br /[17:26] masquerade features: br /[17:26] masquerade file integrity checker: br /[17:26] masquerade siteurl fixer: br /[17:26] masquerade full blown options editor: br /[17:27] masquerade basically, its to get rid of the need for phpmyadmin and such when trying to fix sites br /[17:27] mdawaffe how does it know when to unserialize and when to not? br /[17:27] photomatt nice graphic :-p br /[17:27] skeltoac Cute. br /[17:27] masquerade mdawaffe, same way WP does br /[17:28] mdawaffe ah - right br /[17:28] mdawaffe ok br /[17:28] photomatt looks like a very cool project br /[17:28] masquerade the one other feature that isn't done is a whitespace fixer br /[17:29] masquerade automagically get rid of [some] of those headers already sent errors from people editing files and leaving a newline br /[17:29] photomatt while we're on plugins, what do you guys think of an XML-RPC call that would tell you the active plugins on a blog? br /[17:29] ringmaster One other thing, while we're on this topic: the web esrvice for version info? br /[17:29] photomatt ringmaster: br /[17:29] skeltoac photomatt: I like it. br /[17:29] photomatt sent to the hackers list br /[17:29] ringmaster Right. It's a date? How about a version number? Or an SVN revision? br /[17:29] photomatt we could provide all of those br /[17:29] ringmaster And then including the SVN rev in source with $Id$? br /[17:29] skippy I don't think anyone needs to know which plugins I'm running, unless I tell them. br /[17:30] masquerade skippy, its all locked down, I commented out auth for now br /[17:30] skeltoac skippy: There could be an opt-in checkbox for it. br /[17:30] skeltoac Oops, more options... br /[17:30] skippy sarcasmoptions are bad!!/sarcasm br /[17:30] photomatt :-p br /[17:30] photomatt yes, I wouldn't want an option for it br /[17:30] skippy make it a plugin in itself. br /[17:30] skippy then people who don't want it can not activate it. br /[17:31] mdawaffe seems you might want to work per-plugin - some might not want people to know which spam plugins they use, e.g. br /[17:31] masquerade oh yeah, and WP-Medic has a plugin manager for when a pesky plugin runs astray and can't be deactivated br /[17:31] photomatt skippy: we actually want it to be the reverse br /[17:31] photomatt the idea is to get as much data as possible br /[17:31] ringmaster What would listing the plugins of a blog offer to the blogger? br /[17:31] photomatt someone could also check your plugins by hitting your wp-content/plugins folder or checking that folder for known file names br /[17:31] skippy ringmaster: it's to help the supporter, I think br /[17:31] skeltoac yes. br /[17:32] photomatt in fact I heard people suggesting that, so I thought it would make more sense just to have an official hook for it br /[17:32] skippy photomatt: but that directory listing won't tell them which ones are activated. br /[17:32] photomatt it would also be very valuable data for any plugin directory, knowing what plugins are actually USED rather than what's downloaded br /[17:32] photomatt which is a very rough metric br /[17:32] skippy My concern is this: if a plugin I use has a vulnerability, I don't want people to be able to sniff for that plugin. br /[17:33] relle FYI - This plugin is designed to create a list of activated plugins for displaying on a Page: br /[17:33] masquerade skippy, if people want to get you that bad, there are ways to sniff otherwise br /[17:33] photomatt you have the same problem (more, actually) with WP exposing its version various places br /[17:33] skippy masquerade: yes, I understand. But if an automated attack is prefaced by a sniff, I would like to deny the sniffer and avoid the automated attack. br /[17:34] skippy I'm not the end-all-be-all, though. If it gets rolled in, I'll disable it. br /[17:34] skeltoac To mitigate the concern about automated attacks, such functions could require some form of human authentication. br /[17:34] masquerade skippy, what about if we found a DSA library for PHP or something and all data sent is DSA encrypted with a public-key which only Matt holds br /[17:34] photomatt skippy: from your point of view, would you want it to be a hidden pref or something a plugin / flag would disable? br /[17:34] masquerade er, a private key whicho nly matt holds br /[17:35] photomatt masquerade: that'll just make them hack me first! br /[17:35] skippy photomatt: my preference would be for it to be something which needs to be specifically _enabled_, instead of disabled. br /[17:35] masquerade photomatt, so? :-P br /[17:35] skippy The user ought to know what it does, and why they're enabling it. br /[17:35] masquerade photomatt, at least the rest of us feel safe ;-) br /[17:35] * mdawaffe hacks photomatt br /[17:35] photomatt ouch br /[17:36] skeltoac WP Debug Mode? br /[17:36] photomatt so just to summarize br /[17:36] ringmaster Yeah, I think that's probably a better idea, along with a big warning not to turn it on unless for good reason. br /[17:36] photomatt the cons are if a plugin had a vuln it could be used by an automated scanner br /[17:37] photomatt the pros would be support techs could look it up, and plugin directories could aggregate it br /[17:37] * robl1 is now known as robla br /[17:37] photomatt related to that, we could reward plugin authors as well using that data br /[17:37] skeltoac If I were a hacker and if I knew command that could take down your blog given a certain plugin, I'd just send the command. Why bother requesting the plugin list? br /[17:38] photomatt good point, I still get worms aimed at that IIS vuln from years ago, code red or something br /[17:38] photomatt they don't bother to check that I don't run IIS br /[17:39] Podz some users will see it as a privacy issue whether you guys do or not, so this should be transparent br /[17:39] masquerade photomatt, oh yeah, I get those to my home laptop at about 10 or so a minute br /[17:39] * mdawaffe realizes photomatt doesn't run IIS. Stops hacking br /[17:39] photomatt the difficult part about this is br /[17:39] skeltoac heh br /[17:40] photomatt the benefits are tangible, the cons are potential br /[17:40] skeltoac True. br /[17:40] ringmaster What about privacy? br /[17:40] Podz is that at me ? br /[17:40] skippy if it needs to be an option, we could make it a one-off option in upgrade.php, as a new step ? br /[17:41] skeltoac ringmaster: Do you see the version !-- please leave this in for stats -- as a privacy problem? br /[17:41] ringmaster I also have a ton of plugins that I wrote that I'm not going to release. I'd rather not have that list available to a directory/anyone. br /[17:41] photomatt what if it was just a filename or similar? br /[17:42] photomatt rather than all the info about the plugin, which may be private br /[17:42] photomatt that would address ringmaster's concern br /[17:42] ringmaster I see it now: Oooh, ringmaster, can I have that xosoiwehf.php plugin? br /[17:42] mdawaffe photomatt: I change some of the filenames - I'd be corrupting your data br /[17:42] skeltoac Or an extra field in the comments section of the plugin itself. br /[17:42] masquerade mdawaffe, the number of users who would rename the files are slim br /[17:42] photomatt mdawaffe: that's fine, you're an outlier br /[17:42] mdawaffe take that, inliers! br /[17:43] Podz but what you do not need is a WP are looking inside my blog type affair going on, which you will unless you make this clear to all with reasons. We may know what the web is like, but as far as users are concerned, their blog, their privacy br /[17:44] skippy explain to me again how the list of plugins will help anyone other than a plugin manager ? br /[17:44] skeltoac Plugin authors could take advantage of the feature by including an extra field in the top of their plugin file. The RPC function could just send those out and a number representing the unknown plugins also activated. br /[17:45] ringmaster Podz: That's really the thing. Most programs will ask you if you want to submit anonymous usage data. As long as the user is cool with that, then ok. WP should do this if this feature is included. br /[17:45] Podz agreed br /[17:46] masquerade I think asking during installation/upgrade would be a great idea, that way its neither enabled nor disabled by default br /[17:46] photomatt should we disable other data we send out? br /[17:46] photomatt such as the wordpress meta tag br /[17:46] photomatt version data br /[17:46] photomatt RSS fields such as author, time posted, etc may not be exposed in the templates br /[17:46] Podz thats just 'there'. this you are going in and getting. It's a definite change br /[17:47] masquerade really, I see nothing in the ideas that couldn't already be accomplished out of the box br /[17:47] photomatt masquerade: which way? br /[17:47] masquerade photomatt, sending plugin data, version info br /[17:47] masquerade wondering what plugins are running? Test for a list of known plugins br /[17:49] photomatt I'd hate for a spider to be flailing about randomly in people's wp-content directory br /[17:49] skeltoac I think the volume of opinions in this discussion is enough to warrant the addition of at least one option to turn off RPC calls. br /[17:49] masquerade photomatt, I mean from the whole privacy, sniffer standpoint br /[17:49] masquerade I wouldn't see much of a problem with enabling it by default, but if there's people with a problem, I'd think the install/upgrade process should let you choose br /[17:49] photomatt then again we had that guy running around forums claiming WP was spyware because it had a link to an external image br /[17:50] Podz while installation is one place, there needs to be a way to later kill it off. People will be so eager to install they will allow the defualt, which will undoubtedly be to send. br /[17:50] skippy can't we stage this? br /[17:51] skippy Make it an install-only option now, default to off. br /[17:51] skippy So people get used to seeing it. br /[17:51] Podz Hey - if this was on a MSN blog, what would we be saying ? br /[17:51] skippy we can tlak abotu it. br /[17:51] skippy Then, in 1.6, we bring it out again br /[17:51] masquerade Podz, on by default, make it difficult to disable :-P br /[17:51] skippy give ample opportunity for community discussion in the forums. br /[17:51] ringmaster My gut reaction is that I like my privacy, but I might change my mind (or become more adamant) by next week. br /[17:51] Podz pah - the code to kill would be in the forums :) br /[17:51] skeltoac photomatt: Are there any other things you'd like to make discoverable via RPC? br /[17:52] photomatt skeltoac: totally br /[17:52] Podz photomatt:: do you have a search box on your blog ? br /[17:52] ringmaster skeltoac: You can make everything discoverable via RPC via plugin. I'm surprised that BOTD doesn't do that. br /[17:52] photomatt my leaning is for it to be default on, but very easy for users to turn off if they feel like it for whatever reason br /[17:52] photomatt just like pinging br /[17:52] skeltoac So if we're looking at a growing list of RPCs, we're looking at having this discussion every time unless we handle it once and for all. br /[17:52] photomatt Podz: you can search through the query string, just add ?s= br /[17:53] relle podz NO he doesn't and it makes me CRAZY to use his site. br /[17:53] Podz photomatt:: that's a no then :) br /[17:53] photomatt I have a firefox shortcut so I just type p term and it searches my site for that term br /[17:53] Podz photomatt:: you choose one way, but it's unfindable for 90% of users br /[17:53] Podz there is a standard here :) br /[17:53] skeltoac For the tin-foil-hat people, we may need to start a Privacy tab. br /[17:54] * skippy casually slips off his tin-foil hat. br /[17:54] photomatt when I get a chance I'm going to drop the yahoo code in, I've just been too lazy to have the search go through my archives in addition to photos and scripts and quotes br /[17:54] * ringmaster looks at his tin foil hat, and eyes skeltoac carefully. br /[17:54] skeltoac =P br /[17:54] Podz I'm not privacy bothered - but the screamers WILL hit wp from all angles unless this is done properly br /[17:54] skippy -- should I kill this ? br /[17:54] skeltoac Does anyone think privacy isn't a big enough issue to make an options tab for? br /[17:55] photomatt skippy: just say we know and close it br /[17:55] Podz For the work to do it vs the potential hassles, I would say do it. br /[17:55] photomatt let me outline a larger plan br /[17:55] photomatt hopefully in 1.6 br /[17:55] masquerade skippy, can you move it? it doesn't belong there br /[17:56] masquerade it belongs in plugins/hacks br /[17:56] photomatt there should be an install checkbox br /[17:56] Podz we can't move posts yet br /[17:56] photomatt [ ] This is a public blog br /[17:56] mdawaffe Podz: as soon as photomatt updates you can br /[17:56] photomatt if it's not checked, it shouldn't ping anyplace br /[17:56] Podz mdawaffe:: cool ! thanks ! br /[17:56] photomatt and maybe add meta noindex tags br /[17:56] photomatt just for people who want to blog but not let the whole internet know about it br /[17:56] skeltoac photomatt: I like that idea. br /[17:57] ringmaster Does that affect this RPC thing, too? br /[17:57] photomatt I'm a big believer in privacy, if people don't want crawlers and technorati and google on their blog, that should be an easy option br /[17:57] photomatt ringmaster: I think that could be the global switch br /[17:57] mdawaffe photomatt: I say rock it. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that I would mind being discoverable are email and pass, which I assume will stay safe :) br /[17:58] Podz can we have solid info for users BEFORE they upgrade. 1.6 is goig to be changing a lot and I would hate to see security used as the crowbar and then we have all these people with blogs that are actually very different br /[17:58] mdawaffe the global on/off is a good idea br /[17:58] ringmaster This is a public blog should link to a Codex WP Privacy Policy page. br /[17:58] mdawaffe yes br /[17:58] Podz and all this can be altered ? br /[17:59] mdawaffe Podz: all what? br /[17:59] Podz the privacy stuff br /[17:59] mdawaffe oh - on codex? I guess we should lock that page br /[17:59] skippy make a privacy tab. A top-level Public / Private checkbox sets or unsets a list of per-item checkboxes. I'd like that. br /[18:00] mdawaffe (Podz - I'm not sure I correctly interpreted your question) br /[18:00] Podz Matt - you posted a long time ago about windows updates and your data loss. That post/comments went on forever. You did not like how the MS product behaved. You are proposing changes to WP that will change it's behaviour and people will react just the same. This must be completely above board br /[18:02] masquerade Podz, WP is a bit more sane than an MS product br /[18:02] masquerade and, we're not altering files br /[18:02] photomatt I don't see the parallel, but I understand that this should be done deliberately br /[18:02] skippy can we defer this for the mailing list? I'd like to see the last two agenda items brielfly. br /[18:02] Podz hey - it's not me you have to convince :) It's the people wanting to find ground to shoot from br /[18:03] ringmaster There needs to be a codex page that describes what information your WP blog will expose when you toggle that switch off and on. br /[18:04] Podz that would be excelelnt br /[18:06] photomatt okay last two items br /[18:06] photomatt Forums: topics with no replies - mdawaffe br /[18:06] mdawaffe uh - this can happen very easily now (though is not implemented yet) br /[18:06] mdawaffe something like ?noreplies=1 will make it all work br /[18:06] mdawaffe do people want an actual link? br /[18:07] mdawaffe where should it go? br /[18:07] photomatt I would love to see br /[18:07] photomatt a new file, view.php br /[18:07] photomatt then the URL could be /view/no-replies/ br /[18:07] photomatt and /view/untagged/ br /[18:07] mdawaffe ok br /[18:08] skippy are the tags proving useful to anyone? br /[18:08] mdawaffe skippy: to me :) br /[18:08] skippy ok br /[18:08] skippy that's enough for me then. br /[18:08] relle The people who would use the no replies would be volunteers, right? br /[18:08] mdawaffe I follow br /[18:08] relle Not general users. br /[18:08] skippy relle: general users COULD use it; but most wouldn't br /[18:09] mdawaffe relle: Anyone could, I would suppose the people who would would be the volunteers as you call them br /[18:09] relle right. br /[18:09] relle so it would make sense to have such a link in an inconspicuous place or on the Profile page. br /[18:10] photomatt I think it's a great idea, let's make it happen br /[18:10] Podz I think it should be public. Why hide them ? br /[18:10] relle Maybe in the footer? br /[18:10] mdawaffe I say don't hide them br /[18:10] photomatt nah put it right under the tag cloud br /[18:10] mdawaffe but I don't know where to put them br /[18:10] relle I'm not talking about hiding. br /[18:10] mdawaffe done br /[18:10] mdawaffe ? above latest discussions? br /[18:10] photomatt yep br /[18:10] relle How about below the Forum Topic sections instead. br /[18:11] photomatt Views: X, Y, Z br /[18:11] relle Scrolling past the tags is already a lot to scroll past to get to the questions. br /[18:11] mdawaffe k - it'll only be one line, I suppose br /[18:11] photomatt as people decide which other ones they want we can add them br /[18:11] photomatt but the two that come to mind are untagged and no replies br /[18:11] photomatt we could link unresolved too br /[18:12] Podz those 3 would be very useful br /[18:12] mdawaffe You want it under a nowikih2/nowiki ? br /[18:12] relle I really think that the users need to get to the posts and the forum sections as fast as possible. These particular links could go below easily. br /[18:12] skippy can we get some more space between the ads and the pagination links ? br /[18:12] relle I still feel that the tag cloud should be below Search in the column. br /[18:12] skippy i agree with relle. br /[18:12] relle Having spent 6 weeks with a 600x800 monitor, it's HELL scrolling down all the way. br /[18:12] masquerade I have a request for the forums while on the subject... br /[18:12] relle Just to get to the good stuff. br /[18:13] masquerade can we get a fluid layout, some of us have these things called normal sized monitors br /[18:13] Podz I too would like to see that grey bar used.. br /[18:13] * relle hugs masquerade br /[18:13] Podz masquerade:: greasemonkey ? br /[18:14] masquerade Podz, find a JS guru that'll write me one and sure br /[18:14] Podz TG mentioned this to forums list - maybe someone can come up with some skinning for FF users ? Or if someone tells me where to look, I'll try br /[18:14] photomatt okay, wrapping up br /[18:14] photomatt Media status - ringmaster br /[18:14] ringmaster Really quick... br /[18:15] ringmaster Just wanted to note that I am progressing on the media features that have been listed in the 1.6 features for months. br /[18:15] ringmaster For those that haven't seen it or played with it, there is a screenshot here: br /[18:15] relle It's work of art!!!! br /[18:15] ringmaster The latest version (not pictured) works with WYSI, which is why I've been sending in a few patches for TinyMCE. br /[18:15] ringmaster Current work is for making the rewriter get the thumbnails. br /[18:15] ringmaster General or specific thoughts on this could be helpful. br /[18:15] relle Personally, I think of all the features for the new version, this media ability will push WordPress to the top. br /[18:17] photomatt ringmaster: would it be possible to make the primary mode of interaction attaching files to the post br /[18:17] photomatt and then have browsing as an option for already existing media? br /[18:17] skeltoac ringmaster: That's the first I've seen it and let me just say OMG WOW! br /[18:18] photomatt I'd like to stay away from the complexity of nested folders everywhere, people already deal with that on their HDs br /[18:18] ringmaster Ok. I should be able to have it do that when there's only one filesystem. br /[18:19] ringmaster In the example, it's getting files from the local server and from Flickr. br /[18:19] ringmaster I might be able to root things other than the local files in a different way so that images are on the first browser page. br /[18:19] photomatt then yeah, let's try to stay away from folders br /[18:20] ringmaster Do users with many many images not organize them into folders? br /[18:20] relle Yes, but let's not forget that some of us have spent years organizing and structuring our image folders. br /[18:20] photomatt well if they want to browse their local files br /[18:20] masquerade Could scrap folders entirely and put in a tags browser instead br /[18:20] photomatt the built-in OS browser is going to be better for that br /[18:20] photomatt every time br /[18:20] photomatt for files on the server br /[18:20] photomatt the most common use case is posting and attaching images br /[18:21] stevecooley wowzer, that looks cool br /[18:21] photomatt we can auto-create folders for those just like we have fake folders for posts br /[18:21] photomatt so the file you uploaded today can go in wp-content/2005/08/ br /[18:21] relle ICK br /[18:22] photomatt if they already have things uploaded, they can just link, but for new attachments we should auto-file br /[18:23] ringmaster Ok, so the upload link should automatically choose where the image goes. br /[18:23] ringmaster And the link would be available on the root browser page. br /[18:23] relle then auto-file should be controllable so people could upload to wp-content/photos/cats and wp-content/photos/dogs not just by date. br /[18:23] stevecooley I use Phpix, which is ridiculously easy to post photos with.. would I be able to get it to post photos into my structure maybe? br /[18:23] stevecooley ie: br /[18:24] ringmaster The trouble would be figuring out a good way to handle more than one categorization scheme. Better to just choose a default one and let plugins override them. br /[18:24] stevecooley that's where I spend a lot of time when i post photos, making sure it's on the server, finding the file on the server, then ascertaining the URL, then posting it in an article br /[18:25] photomatt totally br /[18:25] photomatt the hardest part should be selecting the photo on your HD br /[18:25] photomatt everything after that can be handled br /[18:25] stevecooley yeah br /[18:26] ringmaster Ok, so I'm still in the process of revising.  :) br /[18:27] photomatt thanks for the update ringmaster! br /[18:27] stevecooley btw, what's cool about phpix is that I wrote a mime detector and media handler piece of code so that I can throw anything quicktime can read in there, and it's viewable in a gallery instantly br /[18:27] ringmaster Same with this.  ;) br /[18:27] stevecooley cool :) br /[18:27] stevecooley can't wait to see it in action on my install :) br /[18:28] ringmaster I'm done talkin'. br /[18:30] Podz mdawaffe:: main channel for a moment ? br /[18:30] mdawaffe #wordpress ? br /[18:30] Podz yup br /[18:31] skippy okay, any last items? br /[18:31] relle Is there anything else on the agenda? br /[18:32] skippy I think that's it. br /[18:32] skeltoac I'm full. br /[18:32] relle photomatt? br /[18:33] skippy going once... br /[18:33] relle OH, just do it. br /[18:33] skippy /meetup

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